Vespid stingwings...I dislike them nearly as much as Aun'va. True, they are fast and have low AP guns, but I personally cannot see the benefits outweighing the liabilities. They have mediocre BS, WS, S and Sv, the same as guardsmen for those categories, and terrible Ld (6 on a standard vespid, albeit not that bad considering Ld9 on a strain leader). They are also outrageously expensive.
Pros:
-Their Shots wound marines on 3+, with no armour save (except termies/artificer armour)
-They're very fast (jump infantry, fleet, re-roll failed dangerous terrain tests)
-They have a respectable T4
-Leadership 9 with a strain leader, and while he's alive they can benefit from markerlights.
-High initiative, striking before marines.
Cons:
-Paper-thin 5+ armour
-Don't fare well in assault (despite being designed for it...we'll touch on this in a minute)
-Their guns are only assault 1 and will likely only get to shoot once.
- Ballistic skill 3 largely wastes that one shot
-Monstrously expensive, costing 70pts for four of them
-Usefulness only decreases further when their target is in cover
-Weapon skill 3 makes them vulnerable in assault.
-If wound allocation kills the strain leader, you can no longer benefit from markerlight hits and only have Leadership 6
Now, vespid seem to be designed to target a marine squad with their neutron blasters then follow up with an assault, but there are several problems with this.
-Their guns, even with a full squad of vespid, will average 4.5 marine kills. 2.25 if they're in cover (they will be)
-For them to be able to assault after, they have to be 6"> away from the target, and even with their 12" movement, means they started the turn 18" away. That means the marines would have been shooting at them the turn before. Assuming a Flamer/ML loadout, that's 8 bolter shots and a frag missile, about 8 hits, about 4 dead vespid. Even fewer dead marines.
-If they were 24" away and zoomed in to 12", they would still have had a round of shooting from 24" from the marines, and would end their turn without being able to assault, but with rapid fire and flamer range. Or, the marines could fire pistols and charge.
-A full unit of 11 vespid charging marines is 22 attacks (assuming none died) 11 hits, 3.6 wounds, one dead marines. A unit of 8 marines and a PF sergeant (because one died) gets 9 attacks, 6 hits, 2.5 dead vespid (accounting for two attacks being PF, of course).
-Vespid can't fleet and shoot in the same turn.
-If the marines assault, you kill half a marine, and they kill 5 vespid (account for .5 marines being dead). Without them shooting.
And, most importantly
-Since the marines WILL be in cover, they will get a 4+ save, and you will strike second (if you assault).
Now, in literally ideal circumstances:
Marines are out of cover and you have markerlight support. 11 shots at BS5
Shots x To hit chance x To wound chance x To penetrate armour chance
11 x5/6 x4/6 x6/6 = 6 marines dead, assault means one more marine dead, the three remaining marines only kill 1.5 vespid (accounting for PF sarge) Then you lose combat by one, stick around anyways and eventually wear the unit down. You will lose a lot of vespid over a very protracted, but under ideal circumstances with and ideal target who is poorly positioned didn't shoot at you and with outside help from markerlights, vespid can kill a unit and make back most of their points, but not any other unit in the game.
By the way, full unit costs 182, more than a transport-less tac squad (usually)
I'd leave them at home...always.
I know they seem built to assault under 5th ed rules, but they weren't really supposed to do that in 4th and trying to use them as such in 5th is a real waste.
ReplyDeleteUse their mobility to keep them in cover and work them close to whatever unit you are planning to kill that turn. Maul them with Crisis suits or whatever and then finish them off with a barrage of St 5 AP 3.
The problem is that there are much hardier, much more points-efficient ways to do so. For 180 points, the cost of vespid, you can be packing a fireknife team. You could have almost four firestorm suits for that price! Also, Space Marines generally use tac squads in a defensive role, meaning they are on an objective in cover. Even if the vespids find cover within 12" of the SM cover, they are still having to beat cover saves. The offensive space marine units, the ones that may not have cover and may move near cover, are usually either in transports, have a 2+ or are actually as fast as the vespid, negating their speed (assault squad, bike squad). Against all those threats, vespid do little.
DeleteIf they had 4+ Sv, assault two guns and BS4, they'd be worth it. Or if they were made cheaper by 6 points a piece.
Yeah, you have all of the above too. The Vespid are a mop up unit for taking care of the last part of that squad that the Crisis Suits or whatever wasn't able to finish off.
ReplyDeleteAlso, they wouldn't do too badly going deep against Devastators or Long Fangs. Even if they are getting a cover save, I'd rather deal with a 4+ save that I can reduce with Markerlights versus a 3+ save. Of course if you deepstrike well, you might negate that cover save completely with clever placement.
I do agree it would be nice if they were cheaper seeing as they are basically a disposable unit. But you have to remember that Crisis Suits, Stealth Suits, Piranhas . . . all of those are basically disposable units too. Hit hard and fast with them. Kill what you think must die, then hope you get another turn or two to do damage with them. So in the scheme of things within the codex, they are just as overly costed as all the other disposables.